Bryntroll

[giantgx]

Sé que hubo un reporte similar, pero ha quedado muy en el limbo.

 

Mi reporte es prácticamente lo mismo, que esa arma está activándose múltiple cuando no debería. En especial DKs.

Y que su proc es muy alto de por sí.

 

El tester usó como referencia un comentario de Wowhead que está desactualizado. El cual decía:

The theorycrafting on this potent weapon is still rather sparse, so I spent several hours testing the limits of the proc and it's dps contribution. First off, the basics:

• The 264 version proc has an average damage of 2250, while the 277 version has an average of 2538.
  
• The damage does not scale with any character stats (though the dps does, more on that below).
  
• The damage does scale with any percentage damage increases that affect spell damage, such as Avenging Wrath, Curse of Elements, Blood Presence, etc.
  
• The drain can proc off of any weapon attack, as well as some odd events such as applying or refreshing effects such as deathknight diseases or the paladin talent Righteous Vengeance. These odd events do have some requirements though. The drain can proc off of the refreshing of some DoTs or debuffs so long as the character is within melee range of and facing the target for the drain. Specific to the deathknight class, the drain can proc off of the disease application of Icy Touch (assuming you are in melee range), can double-proc off Plague Strike (the strike and the disease application), and on each target that is in melee range and in front of you from Pestilence.
  
• The drain has a base proc rate of 2 procs-per-minute, or 11.3333% chance per swing, and has no internal cooldown.
  
• The drain can proc multiple times per attack, provided there's are more than one weapon event for the attack. For example, the drain can multi-proc off the following:
  - On any or all of the multiple targets of Cleave, Whirlwind, Divine Storm, Heart Strike, or Sweeping Strikes.
  - From a melee (or special) and it's subsequent seal proc, Blood-Caked Blade proc, or Windfury proc.
  - From both the physical and shadow portions of Scourge Strike.
  
• The drain can not proc from any spells, excluding the odd events mentioned above.
  
• The drain is incapable of critting and functions on the spell hit table. However, it doesn't seem to be resistible.
  

Now, with a 2 PPM baseline, the weapon will deal 2 procs a minute before any waste or special attacks or talents are factored in, giving it a minimum dps of 75. In practice, the proc will usually provide between 200 and 400 dps, depending on the character's haste rating, spec and rotation (and therefore number of procable attacks per second), spell hit chance, and +damage buffs present. A good estimate is that it will provide approximately 4-8% of a character's dps. For many classes, this means the proc is worth the equivalent of between 400 and 800 additional attack power, though it's place on the best-in-slot list is strongly dependent class, spec, haste rating, and rotation. In general is can be assumed to be near the top of the list, however, as the proc itself provides a fairly respectable amount of dps while also making it easier for the healers to keep you alive through miscellaneous raid damage.

 

Y esos datos parecían correctos hasta esa fecha, la cual es el 2009-12-16 (la última vez que el autor editó su comentario).

De hecho si miran los comentarios del alto proceo son previos a esa fecha o siempre por esa fecha.

 

Luego tenemos la petición que hizo un usuario, la cual tiene fecha el 2010-1-03 (que sería 3 de Enero de 2010). O sea posterior a ese comentario.

Blue: Nerf Bryntroll, the Bone Arbiter | Nihilum (urbad.net)

 

Ahí tenemos 2 comentarios de Ghostcrawler. Uno diciendo que está feliz con esa arma, que mientras no suponga ser mejor que la Agonía de Sombras (como ocurre en UW xD) no es un problema.

 

Pero luego tenemos otro comentario, porque seguro testearon el arma. El cual dice:

"We have found a bug with Bryntroll where it procs too often for Retribution paladins or Unholy DKs. For example both portions of Scourge Strike could cause a proc, which is unintended.

 

Bryntroll seems to account for about ~3-4% of dps for a typical Icecrown Fury warrior. That's more of where it should be for other melee."

 

Algo que dijo el tester en el otro reporte es que podía dar multiproceos, algo que CONTRADICE totalmente a los que dijo Ghostcrawler, jefe de desarrollo del juego. O sea que como mínimo ahí ya hay un error.

 

Y lo otro que añade Ghostcrawler, es que Bryntroll tiene que suponer un 3-4% del daño de un guerrero furia (o sea, doble Bryntroll) en ICC. Y que eso es más de lo que supone a cualquier otro mele.

O sea, ya otra confirmación que dice que a quien más le debería procear es a un warrior furia. Mientras que en UW el proceo se nota muuuuuuchísimo más con DKs.

 

La otra es que el arma como mínimo redujo su proc a la mitad, además de no poder activarse con hechizos de componente múltple, como Golpe de Plaga (algo que confirmó Ghostcrawler, y algo que el tester dice que es posible contradiciéndolo).

Lo del proc no hay nada en los parches, ni en Wowwiki ni Wowpedia, por tanto asumo que nos estamos basando en Wowhead. Y posterior a la petición de nerfeo y al comentario de Ghostcrawler tenemos comentarios como:

• Anarchy (7-01-2010): Reading bluetracker today, Rets and unholy DKs will be getting "bug fixed" so instead of doing 6-8% of total damage, it should be 3-4%. "We have found a bug with Bryntroll where it procs too often for Retribution paladins or Unholy DKs. For example both portions of Scourge Strike could cause a proc, which is unintended." Source Edit: Seems like they've hotfixed it already, it's doing 3~4% of my total damage now.
  

En ése comentario dice que ya fue fixeada, porque dice que ahora está suponiendo 3-4%, mientras que antes le suponía un 6-8%. Acá es fácil la cuenta... 6/2 es 3 y 8/2 es 4... así ya hay indicio que su proceo fue bajado.

• Dernar (9-1-2010): "I don't want to upset you guys, but Pyrius and Caboom have the right idea about this as a tanking weapon. Is the life steal from the proc nice? Yup, sure is. Does it make this a weapon that is particularly well itemized for DK tanking? No, not really. Because of the way Blizz has designed boss damage output for this expansion, small heals tend to be mostly or completely consumed through overhealing. That is, because even well geared tanks need big heals at least every other time they take a hit from a raid boss, healers spend a lot of time trying to bring tanks to max health. If your tanks are very far below maximim health for more than a few seconds straight, they are likely about to die. This results in a very large amount of overhealing for nearly all progression encounters.
   
  The fact is that at 2 PPM (even though it procs off abilities and even double procs in some situations) is not a reliable proc rate. The healing from this will very rarely save a tank from death, but will often heal a tank that is already at max health (effectively useless for survival). If the proc rate was much higher, and the simply procced heals instead of draining health, this would be a clear choice for tanks. In that case, it would work more like druid HoTs, which heal for small amounts, but do so very frequently. But that's not the case. On the other hand, even the small heals from this can greatly reduce the healing a dps player will need during encounters with moderate raid damage.
   
  So yes, this could be a really nice tanking weapon, but the proc doesn't appear to be itemized with that intent (at least not solely). With the DPS figures I'm seeing here, this weapon is probably better off in the hands of a dps class than a tanking DK, at least the first few times it drops for your guild. If it drops in a PUG, I would encourage DK tanks to roll.
   
  If you want to know more about this, check out some discussions of Effective Health, Avoidance in WotLK, or even just about Chill of the Throne (the ICC dodge debuff everyone hates).
   
  ****Edit 1/9/10**** Expect a nerf to the proc rate on this for Ret pallies and DKs. While this means the dps output of the proc is going to considerably lower, it also means the proc for DK tanks will be considerably lower. This is still not particularly well itemized for DK tanks, but it may be easier to justify giving it to one with the incoming DPS nerf.
  Source:
  http://blue.mmo-champion.com/28/2204...e-arbiter.html"
   
  Ahí habla que el nerfeo afectará también a los tanques.
  
• Rodalpho (10-2-2010): "Bryntroll has been through several rounds of nerfs. As of 3.3.2, the proc is quite rare. In consequence this item is now the worst ilvl 264 2H weapon for ret pallies, DKs, and warriors if you can use most of the itemization on its replacement. For example, if you can regem/gear to use the hit on Cryptmaker without going too far over the hit cap, Cryptmaker is a far better weapon. Shadow's Edge and the Arthas weapons are better in every way.
  

Note that Bryntroll is still better than ilvl245/258 weapons."

 

Dice que luego del nerfeo "the proc is QUITE RARE". Mientras que en UW es QUITE RARE que no procee xD porque lo hace siempre y múltiple :v

Y también dice que hay otras armas que son mejores.

• Usuario 13116 (21-01-2010): "Post nerf it's doing about 4% on my damage now.. ret pally".
  

Habla que luego del nerf el arma está suponiendo un 4% de su daño. Mientras que antes era el doble, como dijo el otro usuario del 6-8%.

• EL usuario 245263 nos arroja info del nuevo proceo (5-2-2010): "Confirmed that the proc does stack. I've been getting about a 3.5% steady proc rate over the course of an entire ICC25, with 2 of these bad boys I'm now at a proc rate of about 7%.
   
  It appears they are on separate cooldowns."
  

Como se puede observar, se ve que es un guerrero furia porque él habla de que tiene un proceo de 3.5% durante toda una ICC. Pero que con 2 de esos "bad boys" tuvo un proceo del 7% (3.5% + 3.5%). Y esto es posterior al comentario de Ghostcrawler.

• Luego tenemos al usuario Nyy22592 (10-02-2010) diciendo algo como "For all you who find this item bad, I'll have you know that the Proc rate is 12% of each melee swing...
  BIS for ret pallies according to elitist jerks"... pero está hablando de las pruebas que hacían los elitistas pero que son anteriores al nerf, y por eso el otro usuario mencionado antes, Rodalpho, le aclara: "It was BiS for ret pallies and DKs before the two nerfs. As of 3.3.2, Bryntroll is the worst 264 weapon and heroic Bryntroll is the worst 277 weapon for pallies, DKs, and warriors. If you have one, try to replace it with another 2H like Cryptmaker. "
  

De hecho el nerf fue tal que ahora "is the worst 277 weapon for pallies, DKs, and warriors". Tengamos en cuenta que esta arma SOLAMENTE ERA BUENA POR EL ROBO DE VIDA, porque su daño en sí es una mier**. Por tanto es obvio que su proc fue bajado demasiado y le sacaron los multiproceos (como dijo Ghostcrawler).

• El usuario 427402 (12-02-2010): "I got this last saturday, and my guildies practically made me switch to UH. I'm glad I did though because now I can do at least 5k in a 10man,compared to 3k. Haven't tried it on a 25man yet, but i expect to see great results."
   
  Este usuario nos dice que consiguió el arma y que su guild prácticamente se lo hizo cambiar. Y que está contento de haberlo hecho, pues ahora hace 5k en vez de 3k. Nuevamente es obvio porque esa arma solo obtenía su daño a partir de su robo y de los seguidos proceos que tenía.
  
• Otro comentario del buen Rodalpho respondiendo a un usuario: "Bryntroll is astonishingly good for ret paladins, but is also BiS for DKs. It's not particularly good for warriors in its current incarnation. Ret paladin: Proc is 6-9% of total damage, 600-850 DPS Unholy DK: 3-5% of total damage, ~350-450 DPS Warrior: 2% of total damage, ~200DPS Edit: This is no longer true as of 3.3.2. Bryntroll is trash now. "
  Acá dice cómo funcionaba, pero luego lo editó y agregó "Edit: This is no longer true as 3.3.2. Bryntroll is trash now" (contrario a lo que piensan los DKs en UW, que la aman más que a la Agonía y más que a sus madres :P)
  

Otra cosa que suele ocurri con los DKs, es que hay situaciones en las cuales siempre que estés en rango mele y apliques las enfermedades, como Fiebre de Escarcha y Plaga de Sangre, mediante habilidades como Toque Helado, Cadenas de Hielo, Golpe de Peste, Pestilencia, también procea esa arma. Tal y como dice EL COMENTARIO DESACTUALIZADO, cuando menciona que "The drain can proc off of any weapon attack, as well as some odd events such as applying or refreshing effects such as deathknight diseases or the paladin talent Righteous Vengeance. These odd events do have some requirements though. The drain can proc off of the refreshing of some DoTs or debuffs so long as the character is within melee range of and facing the target for the drain. Specific to the deathknight class, the drain can proc off of the disease application of Icy Touch (assuming you are in melee range), can double-proc off Plague Strike (the strike and the disease application), and on each target that is in melee range and in front of you from Pestilence."

Esos "eventos raros" se dan cuando el DK está en rango mele y ocurre por aplicar las enfermedades.

 

Pero eso fue fixeado en el parche 3.3.3:

• Blood Pague: Applying this disease can no longer separately trigger effects from weapons.
  
• Frost Fever: Applying this disease can no longer separately trigger effects from weapons.
  

Fuente. Y mirar en la sección de Bug Fixes.

 

En UW esos eventos se siguen dando. Cuando no deberían.

Es obvio que en UW está funcionando pre-nerf. Además, por poner un ejemplo, en Warmane Blackrock (servidor privado con el mayor nivel de PvP del mundo, con excepción de Classic) no verás DKs o Ret palas con Bryntroll, porque el proc es caca, o sea, no renta. Muchísimo menos teniendo Agonía.

Acá en UW de 10 DKs que veo, 11 usan Bryntroll. xD

 

 

Esto estaría bueno que se repare. Porque ganaríamos cosas como:

1. Una temporada de arenas buena.

2. Menos bugs.

3. Hay DKs que se engañan y creen que son buenos xD y eso es grave :c

 

 

 

Fuente 2. Los comentarios de wowhead.

 

P.D.: si tienen que elegir un reporte a duplicar, que sea el otro, porque este está con más info. Saludos.

[giantgx]

Añado info:

 

Ghostcrawler acá dijo: "If anything, the other weapon procs need to be closer to this level."

 

Qué otra arma de ICC tiene procs? Exacto, el Nibelungo.

 

Observer el hotfix en el 3.3.2 (mismo parche donde fixearon Bryntroll) al Nibelungo (posterior al comentario de Ghostcrawler):

 

"The following information contains both hotfixes this staff has received.

• 2% proc rate with no internal CD. There is no limit on the number that can be out at one time.
  
• Spawn with 12,600 health and no mana bar.
  
• Heal themselves for 25% of the damage they deal.
  
• Cast smite (holy damage) an average of 16.6 casts per summon or an instant cast every 1.81 seconds. The actual GCD of the val'kyr is probably 1.35 seconds and 0.45-0.5 additional seconds are added from server delay/lag. (It's the same affect that raises a water elemental's cast time from 2.5 up to 2.95-3.0 seconds.)
  
• Deal 1591 - 1785 damage, 5% crit chance, 1.5 crit multiplier, and hit capped.
  
• They do not scale with your stats.
  
• Benefit from curse of elements, but not arcane empowerment, ferocious inspiration, or sanctified retribution.
  
• Benefit from +5% spell crit debuff from imp. scorch, imp. shadowbolt, and winter's chill and all other boss debuffs.
  
• Benefit from the spell haste buffs from wrath of air and imp. moonkin aura/swift retribution.
  
• Val'kyr proc off living bomb dot ticks and those from locks and priests. They do not proc off pyroblast or fireball's dot or ignite or any other dot that are an after-effect of a spell.
  
• Arcane is horrible with this staff because it does not proc off each arcane missile, only at the onset of the channel. It interacts the same way with mind flay.
  
• Proc off each spellcast of arcane explosion, each wave of blizzard, and the detonation of living bomb. It does NOT proc off each target hit.
  
• Do not proc off waterbolt or mirror image spells.
  
• Proc off molten armor.
  
• Val'kyr target the mob that caused the proc (not based on your aggro). If the target dies, they will wait and attack the next target you deal damage to, whether directly or indirectly. Thus, they will never randomly target mobs and break CC. If a Val'kyr appeared to break a CC, look to the master of the Val'kyr instead.
  
• Visually, they're an exact mini-replica of the white Val'kyr of the Twin Val'kyr encounter in ToC. Blizzard could have added an additional rarity to each staff by making half spawn only white and half spawn only black Val'kyr. Oh well...
  
• To get the most from the Val'kyr, stand between 10 and 30 yards. If outside that range, the Val'kyr will fly around a bit until in minimum/maximum range and eat away at the 30 seconds it's summoned. It's worth noting for pvp that once the Val'kyr is in minimum range, it won't need to readjust if the target moves closer than 10 yards until a new target is acquired.
  
• Val'kyr obey the commands you give to your pets.
  
• For a reason unknown (and it might very well be unintentional), talenting for fingers of frost and imp. blizzard is triggering this staff at an exceptional rate. If you're a mage, you will get a kick out of running with this staff at least once as frost for AoE jobs in raids because of the huge number of Val'kyr that will spawn, and you'll also be able to control them with your pet. Your raid will enjoy them as well.
  
• Additional information may be found at truecrafting.codeplex.com."
  

2% de proc. Algo que va de la mano con lo que dijo un usuario de que su nuevo proc durante toda una ICC fue de 3.5% y que va de la mano con lo que dijo Ghostcrawler acerca de que Bryntroll debería tener proc similar a otros proceos de armas, como por ejemplo Nibelungo.

 

 

[francis1]

deje botado el post porq no habia encontrado mas pruebas ;(

 

/pray, porq de momento, aca es mejor la bryntoll que la shadowmourne jaja

[giantgx]

deje botado el post porq no habia encontrado mas pruebas ;(

 

/pray, porq de momento, aca es mejor la bryntoll que la shadowmourne jaja

 

Yo pensé que eran inventos de los que perdían con DKs :P además antes no me daba cuenta del robo porque no usaba addons, pero gracias al BigRoma me puse un addon que muestra qué hechizos me bajan vida y no sabía qué eran esos "Drain Life" x2 cuando me refrescaban enfermedades, golpe de peste y de plaga con multiproceos :P de hecho el de plaga es tal cual mencionó Ghostcrawler que ambas partes de su porción de sombra la procean :v

Igual pensé que era normal, pero luego recordé tu post y cuando estaba con Mirailol en warmane no veía DKs, retrys o warrs con Bryntroll :P

Y luego encontré el comentario indiscutible de un GM en donde hablan del bug

Y luego los comentarios posteriores al bugfix de Ghostcrawler.

[giantgx]

Aporto otro link que también confirma el bug: "There is actually a bug with Bryntroll where it procs too often for Unholy Deathknights and Retribution paladins. This wont last. :)"

 

http://urbad.net/blue/eu/12025405718-Two_bugs_that_must_be_fixed_A_S_A_P